When trust researcher Gale Lucas measured construction worker trust in a demolition robot they had to use at work, the study had support from the robot’s manufacturer, and the study was funded by the U.S. Army Research Office. But why? Who is trust measurement done for, and who is it done – to? In this episode focused on measuring trust in AI and automated systems, we’ll dig deeper into how and why some measurement of trust in AI happens.

Find the full Trust Control documentary series in most podcast apps or listen to this episode here:

In this episode:

• Measuring trust in a demolition robot and a genetic data tool
• Measuring worker trust in automation and AI
• Using physiological data like heart rate and brain activity data to measure trust in AI
• Why AI transparency and transparency regulations don’t necessitate trust or trustworthiness
• Government and military funding of AI and automation trust measurement



Featured in this episode:

• Kate Kaye, Trust Control creator and narrator
• Gale Lucas, Director of the Technology Evaluation Lab at the University of Southern California’s Institute for Creative Technologies, Research Associate Professor in USC’s Departments of Civil Engineering, Computer Science and Psychology
• Andreas Duenser, Research Scientist at Data 61, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia
• Bran Knowles, Professor of Sociotechnical Systems at Lancaster University, UK
• Meredith McNeil, Senior Research Scientist and Team Leader of the Genome to Phenome Team at Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Australia

Key References (Mostly) in Order of Appearance

PART ONE

Participants matter: Effectiveness of VR-based training on the knowledge, trust in the robot, and self-efficacy of construction workers and university students by Pooya Adami, et al including Gale Lucas
Advanced Engineering Informatics
2023

Oxytocin increases trust in humans by Michael Kosfeld, et al
Nature
2005

In AI We Trust: Investigating the Relationship between Biosignals, Trust and Cognitive Load in VR, by Kunal Gupta, et al including Andreas Duenser
Proceedings of the 25th ACM Symposium on Virtual Reality Software and Technology
2019

PART TWO

Meta Muse Spark Transparency Report
Meta
2026
(See EU AI Act Transparency Reports/2026-Muse Spark)

Meta Muse Spark Safety and Preparedness Report
Meta
2026

Meta Deletes Face-Recognition System From Its Smart Glasses App After WIRED Report by Dhruv Mehrotra and Dell Cameron
Wired
2026

The Sanction of Authority: Promoting Public Trust in AI
by Bran Knowles and John T. Richards
FAccT ’21: Proceedings of the 2021 ACM Conference on Fairness, Accountability, and Transparency
2021

PART TWO

A Novel Method for Trust-Sensitive Design: Applying Conjoint Analysis to Machine-Assisted Genome Annotation 
by Melanie McGrath, et al including Andreas Duenser
Proceedings of the Extended Abstracts of the CHI Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems

2025
 
PART THREE

Measuring trust in artificial intelligence: validation of an established scale and its short form 
by Melanie McGrath, et al including Andreas Duenser
Frontiers in Artificial Intelligence 
2025

Foundations for an empirically determined scale of Trust in Automated Systems by Jiun-Yin Jian, et al
Center for Multisource Information Fusion
Department of Industrial Engineering
State University of New York at Buffalo 1998
(Also published in the International Journal of Cognitive Ergonomics, 2000)

Trust Control Credits
Trust Control was researched, written, edited and produced by Kate Kaye. All interviews with sources featured in Trust Control were conducted by Kate unless otherwise noted.

Fake ads and silly satire were voiced by Kate Kaye and/or Kyle Huth.

Music
The tunes featured throughout Trust Control were written by D. Rives Curtright and performed by the band Epic Strange from Trust Control’s home of Portland, Oregon:

• D. Rives Curtright: guitar, baritone sax, percussion and drum machine
• Charlie Gotgart: bass
• Steven Francisco: midi keys
• Octavio Dowling: keys
• Dave Coniglio: drums and vibraphone
• Mike McGovern: bass on Decimation

Hear the full Epic Strange album, Nouveau Electric Mess, on Soundcloud. Hear music from D. Rives Curtright on Spotify.

The work that went into Trust Control was done in Kate Kaye’s personal time and was supported by Oregon State University’s Patricia Valian Reser Center for the Creative Arts fellowship on Trust in the Age of Generative AI and Oregon Humanities.